Chapter 1277 Debate

Chapter 1277 Debate

Chapter 1277 Debate
On May 334th, the first year of Zhenming in Daliang (), the sky was high and the clouds were light.

After the bells and chimes rang, Shao Xun entered the room, sat facing north and south, and took the seat at the top.

Crown Prince Shao Jin sat to his lower left, and Prime Minister Wang Yan sat opposite the crown prince.

Below the two men were the princes, important ministers, and meritorious generals.

Then there are some more representative scholars, such as Le Kai of Nanyang, Liu Xun of Pei County, the Prince's Grand Tutor, Song Xian of Dunhuang, Hua Yingzhi of Pingyuan, Guo Jing of Taiyuan, etc.

Some of these people hold official positions, while others do not. The similarity is that they all have considerable say in the family, or they come here representing the family.

Of course, some of them were specifically requested by Shao Xun, such as the Xie An brothers, who came there for no other reason than to satisfy their curiosity.

Seeing that everyone had gathered, Wang Yan cleared his throat and looked outside.

There were even more people in the yard, and there was no place for them in the hall, so they could only sit in the yard and listen, if they could hear it.

He glanced at the emperor's side and back, and saw Secretary Lu Chen, Zhang Yu and Wang Xizhi taking notes.

Everything is ready.

"You are all talented people, and gathering here is a great event since the founding of the country." Wang Yan said straight to the point: "You have all read the New Theory of Worshiping Existence. Now you can speak freely, regardless of your status, age, as long as you argue for the truth. If you say something offensive, the emperor will not punish you."

After saying this, Wang Yan waved his whisk and signaled to two people in the crowd.

The Minister of Personnel Mao Bang and the Hedong scholar Pei Shen stood up one after another and sat in the center.

Liu Xuan raised his eyebrows. This was a rare and formal conversation.

There are two sides in Qingtan: host and guest. The first two are called "hosts". They first express their own views, which is called "communication".

In addition to the host, there are also "guests". They come forward to question the host, which is called "difficulty".

The roles of host and guest may be reversed, with the host questioning the guest in turn, and this cycle repeats.

The winner of a debate is called a "victor" and the loser is called a "defeater".

Wang Yan had no idea how many people had been wronged in the past, but no one had argued with him about this since the end of the Jin Dynasty, and a scene like today's had not been seen for a long time.

The host's opinion has been "made clear", that is, the revised version of Chongyoulun has been distributed, and now the guests need to step forward and ask questions.

Liu Xuan was just about to see who would jump out first, but he saw an acquaintance: Wang Chong from the Chengyang Wang family.

Didn't this guy say he was going to cross the river to the south? Didn't he go?

"Tao gave birth to all things, and all things have their own biases. You take up official duties, and I live in seclusion; you observe propriety, and I indulge myself. The two have nothing to do with each other, and each follows his own path. Isn't that beautiful?" Wang Chong looked at Pei Shen and Mao Bang and said bluntly.

Mao Bang first bowed to Pei Shen, then said: "Did you not read the whole thing? There is a word about 'emotion' in the first paragraph. After knowledge and wisdom are imparted, people come and go in different industries, each according to emotion. You can live in seclusion, but you cannot act recklessly. This is emotion. Tao gave birth to all things, and all things have their own biases. If they are biased, they cannot be self-sufficient and need external resources. As small as a family, it needs the cooperation of its clansmen. As large as a country, when resisting foreign aggression, it needs the support of farmers' food, craftsmen's tools, and warriors' courage. This is called 'the resources are in harmony, so there is friendship.'"

This sentence means that Tao gives birth to all things, but all things are imperfect. If you want to accomplish anything, you have to cooperate with each other. Since you have to cooperate with each other, it must be "appropriate". Everyone must abide by certain rules or social contracts.

If you don’t want to get involved, then “it’s up to you”, but you must also remain “appropriate” when you are in seclusion, and not be too reckless, which means you should not affect others.

"When Emperor Gaozu of Han established his empire, everything was revived, so he ruled by doing nothing, and the country prospered." Wang Chong said, "Now that Daliang has just pacified the world, why not rule by doing nothing? Give the people a rest?"

"How about Jin ruling by inaction?" Mao Bang said, "The world is relatively peaceful now, but there are many people with evil intentions. If officials are benevolent and obedient, respectful and frugal, loyal and trustworthy, and respectful and modest, and have no desire for more and no overuse, then great things can be accomplished with unity from top to bottom. Otherwise, do you want to wait for the world to fall into chaos again?"

Wang Chong was a little anxious, expecting the world to be in chaos. He said, "My estate produces its own food and meat to feed me. I sleep until noon and never intend to cause chaos in the world. Why do you care about how I act?"

"Have you not heard of the laws of the country?" Mao Bang asked in return, "Excessive lust, like Shi Chong of Jin, who exploited the people in every way, making them miserable, wouldn't your farmhands be angry? Pei Yimin also said that greed can be reduced, but it cannot be completely eliminated. We are not asking you to farm for your own food, but just to control your desires and not be extravagant. It is said that all principles (people) can coexist without harm. If you don't do this, the Xiongnu will come to your farm and your farmhands will definitely abandon you and leave."

This passage means that Pei Yimin knows that desires cannot be forbidden, but they must be controlled, so "all principles coexist without harm, and the noble and the humble are formed accordingly." The nobles and the farmhands and servants each stay in their positions and coexist harmlessly. In fact, this is a way of thinking that allows the manor to develop sustainably. Standing on the standpoint of the manor owner, it tells them not to act recklessly and cause public outrage.

When Wang Chong was asked this question, he felt that it made sense.

People think that you should do something for this world, but you don't want to. He doesn't force you to take up a government post or anything like that. He just gives you a set of behavioral norms so that you can be a little more restrained and moderate, and not make the farmers' lives miserable and full of resentment.

He saluted, sat back, and muttered to himself, "My three meals a day are nothing more than cakes and pork, and I have only a few wives and concubines, fewer than the emperor, so what else can I say?"

Liu Yu laughed to himself, then carefully observed Shao Xun's expression, and found that he was listening with a smile on his face, and there was nothing unusual, so he was relieved. It seemed that what the emperor said was true, and he could speak freely.

At this time, another person stood up and said loudly: "Pei Yimin advised scholars to be moderate and polite, and to be pragmatic, which is true. However, if he is too pragmatic, it will also harm the people."

"First, the method of using alkali is very expensive, and the only benefit is to prevent oily spots on the skin and nails. It is flashy but not practical, and it costs people money."

"Second, by observing the stars and sailing on the sea, can you know that the waves are dangerous and there is a worry that the boat will capsize? This is life-threatening."

"Third, Pei Yimin's theory contains a lot of Confucianism, and the disasters of Han Confucianism are still fresh in people's minds. If you learn this, you will be ridiculed by others. This will harm your reputation."

"Fourthly, elixirs have many harmful effects. They cause many discomforts when taken. They harm the spirit of a person."

"Fifth, if the work is too great, it may allow the barbarians to gain power. With the high-bridge saddle and double-sided stirrups, the Xiongnu and Xianbei can run wild and do whatever they want. This will harm the people of the world."

"The great way is invisible and elusive. Everything has its own bias. If you study its principles thoroughly, you will gain nothing. It is better to retreat and cultivate your body, and be pure and natural."

Liu Xuan looked carefully and found that it was Deng Sui, the nephew of Deng You from Pingyang.

Pei Shen and Mao Bang looked at each other, and he stepped forward and said, "You are wrong."

"Why is alkali expensive? It's just that we didn't know how to do it at first, so it was very expensive. Now the detailed method has been released, and everyone can learn it. Why is it so expensive? If you really think it's too expensive, there is lake alkali transported from the grassland. In addition, do everything according to your ability. Some people want to make a profit, but they bear their own gains and losses. If they are willing to accept the loss, what else do they say? Some people just do it for fun, so there is no need to talk about it. Just like Pei Gong said, it's up to your feelings to do it or not."

"The sea is merciless, which is indeed a cause for concern. However, the people of Jin'an and Jian'an counties have many mountains and little land, and they have no food or clothing, so they can only go to sea to risk their lives. At this time, the court should not suppress them, but encourage them to go to sea to find a way to survive. Today, a boat is built, and you say that the sea is windy and rough, which can harm people's lives, so the boat is destroyed and the boatmen are dispersed, and everything is the same as before. However, a hundred years later, if someone wants to go to sea, they have to start from this boat again, or even worse, because the boatmen have been dispersed and the boats built are worse. Isn't this throwing the baby out with the bathwater?"

"The elixir is harmful, and everyone in the north knows it. The Wanxiangyuan compilation has just been published. The golden elixir is actually sulfur. A small amount is beneficial, but a large amount is harmful. The emperor did not order you to make this medicine, but something useful like grass alkali. The Shaofu also has a method to test and analyze all things, which is called "chemistry". Even if you take the elixir created by heaven and earth, you should not take it before understanding its nature. If you have time, you can study it carefully. Given time, gather the efforts of those who are interested in this way, and all the things tested will be recorded in the Wanxiangyuan compilation. You will know whether it is harmful or not at a glance. The rules set by the emperor are "questioning" and "verifying". The amnesty document for the change of the reign of Zhenming also mentioned "seeking truth from facts". Don't talk nonsense and act recklessly. If you don't understand this principle, what else can you say?"

"You said that the double-sided stirrups and high-bridge saddles helped the enemy, which is even more nonsense. Stirrups and saddles are inanimate objects. If the Hu people can use them, why can't I? Moreover, the many small countries in the Western Regions are not barbarians. They have cities, craftsmen, documents, and official systems. If the Xiongnu and Xianbei did not learn from you, they could learn from the Western Regions. I heard that there were many Western Regions Hu people in the Xiongnu army. What do you have to say?"

"All these points are not worth mentioning. Most of them are just words that are used to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It seems that doing nothing is good, but doing something is bad. Haven't you heard that you should act within your ability? Haven't you heard that you should keep pace with the times? Haven't you heard that you should seek truth from facts?"

After listening to this, Deng Sui still seemed to disagree.

"Now you have a house to live in, millet to eat, brocade to wear, a car to travel in, and you can read and practice calligraphy in your spare time. Your achievements seem to be extravagant and wasteful. Isn't this contrary to the moderation that Pei Yimin talked about?" he asked.

"I advise you to restrain your desires, so that the poor people can have a respite." Pei Shen said, "If the world is rich in resources, who will not allow you to satisfy your desires? How did the people live in the pre-Qin period? How are they living now? If I let you live like the people in the pre-Qin period, would you be willing?"

Deng Sui shook her head and didn't want to say more.

Shao Xun was observing silently from above.

In fact, it is hard to say whether today's meeting can achieve the same effect as the Salt and Iron Conference of the Han Dynasty.

Changing a person's mind is difficult, but it cannot be avoided.

Everything has its difficulties and everything has its disadvantages. What we should do is to resolve the difficulties and reduce the disadvantages as much as possible, rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Is there anything perfect in the world?

During the Salt and Iron Conference, Sang Hongyang debated against more than 60 wise men from the counties and states, but because Huo Guang took sides, he ultimately lost the debate and his policy suffered a setback.

At the Vientiane Conference today, Mao Bang and Pei Shen were also confronting the scholars from various counties. Shao Xun could take sides, but so far it seemed unnecessary because he had already decided the topic.

"Your Majesty, may I ask, the truth of the universe is profound and difficult. It is extremely difficult to find the truth of all things. Even if you spend your entire life on it, you will hardly make any progress. Is it necessary to do this?" Liu Yu's voice suddenly sounded.

I didn't expect to be asked this question.

Shao Xun smiled, then held up a finger and said, "I only have a few words."

"First, question first, then verify, seek truth from facts, and don't make random guesses."

"Second, if you don't study the truth this year, you won't study the truth next year, nor will you study the truth ten years from now or a hundred years from now. In a few years, when the enemy is at the gates of the city and the city is in imminent danger, you will feel that you need to study the truth now. But when you look back, you will find that you should start from today."

"Third, do what you can. I don't mean you have to spend all your money, but do what you can with your spare energy."

"Fourth, if you succeed in your search for the truth, I will grant you money, official titles, and fame."

(End of this chapter)